It will be your 10-year anniversary living in Cairo. What changes have you witnessed in Cairo’s dance scene over the years?
Sooo much change over the last 10 years! It would take hours to explain everything, especially because to fully understand the evolutions in the dance scene you also need to take into account the context of the over all entertainment world in Egypt, the economic issues that Egypt has faced in the last years, the effects of Covid…. Lots of factors. So, I will note some of the main things that have changed but the reasons why they have shifted so much is maybe a conversation for another day.
1. Huge influx of foreign dancers. There has always been non-Egyptian dancers here but they’ve generally been the minority. I came to Egypt right after the time Dina’s Al Raqasa show was on which definitely, along with social media, changed the way dancers from outside looked at coming here to work.
2. Full shows to shaabi and mahraganat music. When first came I only had one job to pre-recorded music. We did have ‘disco’ style night clubs but there weren’t a lot and rarely had dance shows. Fast forward to now, discos are the main and most preferred kinds clubs, especially for more wealthy Egyptians and the more popular ones have dance shows every single night, sometimes even two dancers will perform. This is now one of the main jobs most dancers, especially foreign dancers, work. There are dancers who’ve started their work in the last few years that have never danced with a band here.
3. Money and sustainability of being a full time dancer. Egypt has faced a huge devaluation of its currency in recent years and the show rates for dancers have not only not increased to make up for the change, they are paying less than they did before when the currency was more valuable! I dont know if this is because the over saturation of the dance market, more women willing to work for less, or what but from what I see its more and more unsustainable to be a full time dancer and more of the high level dancers are traveling to other countries to perform and teach.
How was your transition from performing every night in cabarets to creating an online platform for teaching?
Its been really good and it’s also felt like a well-timed transition for me as I move forward in my life. Im thankful for my time as a full time performer, I did love it and I made the most of my time by learning as much as possible while I was on the scene. But I have to be honest, near the end I was starting to feel extremely burnt out and depressed due to the pressures and sacrifices of the lifestyle. Covid was a needed transformative time for me, it came right at my burn out breaking point and it allowed me the time to fully stop and look at my life and think about what I wanted for myself moving forward. I realized I wanted more flexibility with my time to explore my other interests, freedom to set my own schedule, time to build a family and spend time with my own, etc. Full time performing is super hard in so many ways, im always impressed by those who make it a life-long career, it definitely was not sustainable for me long term.
Many dancers come to Cairo to learn from you. What do you typically focus on when teaching foreign dancers?
I get requests to teach a lot of different subjects but what I find is that I always keep coming back to technique and musicality. A lot of dancers lack the fundamental technique and musicality that defines Egyptian style. I dont know if its how people are taught from the beginning or if at higher levels there is a bigger focus on choreography than technique and theory but its definitely an issue ive noticed and something we should, as teachers, address if we want to maintain a high level in our international dance community.
What do you think are some of the most important skills or mindsets for a belly dancer to develop?
Dont get me started, Im obsessed with mindset, haha! I’ll narrow it down and pick one of the most important things which is having a bigger-picture mentality. A lot of people have a very narrow view of what success is and look for the shortest and easiest way to get there but taking the long road enables you many more opportunities along the way and build your skills and knowledge. Building something truly great takes time, effort, and thought. You have to have some kind of big-picture view of what you are doing and how you need to pace yourself to hit all the small stepping stones on the way to a greater goal. Another factor of this is knowing how to look at yourself in an honest way and taking the time to see where your personal assets and skills are best appreciated and used so you dont waste your time trying to squeeze into a tiny box you weren’t made to fit into.
Can you walk us through your creative process when preparing for a performance?
My creative process is always evolving as I shift into different phases of my dance life! For the first big chunk of my career I was primarily a night club and restaurant dancer, first in the USA then in Egypt, which meant I was mostly improvised. My creative process was memorizing music and making my technique and combos second nature so I could focus on the audience and/or the band to direct my show. Now that I am shifting to a lot of performing at big dance events and on theater stages im having to re-learn and adjust to choreography and being more methodical about laying out a dance. But, since I started with improvisation, my creative process still starts there, picking a song I love and dancing over and over to it until I can start to define phrases and combos and adjust them to fit the space ill be using. It’s been an interesting process but im finally starting to be more comfortable performing choreography as a soloist.
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Egyptian belly dance is deeply connected to the culture and music of the region. How do you incorporate this cultural context into your teaching and performances?
For me personally, the cultural and musical context give the movements meaning and play a vital part in how I choose to move so naturally they are a big part of the way I teach. I also think there would be less stylistic confusion if we taught from a culturally and musically informed perspective. Sure, it takes a lot more time and effort to develop the knowledge and requires you to continuously keep learning, but in the end it’s super beneficial as a teacher and for the students.
Many people see belly dance as a form of empowerment for women, but there are also those who believe it objectifies women. How do you respond to these conflicting views?
I think in the west we have a habit of over-simplifying things, we want to say its this or its that and there’s no room for nuance. But in reality this dance form is not just one thing, its a number of styles performed and used in so many different ways in a huge range of contexts so its impossible to give an ‘it is’ or ‘it isn’t answer to this kind of question.
For example, in the Middle East it is a dance used as a dance by women for women in female only context… it is also used as a celebratory performance at family celebrations… its also used at seedy nightclubs where the men in charge are profiting off of women’s sexuality. So yes, it can be empowerment, it can also be exploitation, it all depends on the context in which it’s happening and what the motivation of the dancer and audience are.
Another thing to consider in this discussion is mentality, depending on your culture/religion/upbringing you are going to look at things differently. Some people think a woman dancing publicly, no matter what the context, is inappropriate where as others believe its empowering for a woman to own her body and sexuality in public. Our perspectives are driven by our views and beliefs.
We all have our opinions on what this dance means to us personally and what we WANT it to mean, but feelings are not facts and ignoring aspects of the dance you dont like won’t change that they exist. However, we can use our opportunities and platforms to promote and create the dance world we want to see and thats exactly what I encourage people to do.
Belly dance is often associated with certain body types and expressions of femininity. How do you feel about the ongoing discussion around body image within the belly dance community, and do you believe there’s room for all body types in the art form?
Having worked in the commercial dance industry I am very jaded and sick of the extreme beauty standards that are forced on female performers and I hate when that same body shaming mentality makes its way into the dancer for dancer world. One of the main things that I love about experiencing this dance in its folk and social contexts within Egypt is that it’s pure joyful expression no matter the age or gender or body type, everyone just moves to the music and enjoys themselves. When we move into the commercial entertainment realm, that is generally where beauty standards start to be pushed and they are always changing due to popular trends.
In the dancer for dancer world, which is driven by people of all ages, ethnicities, genders, and their pure passion for the art, I think we have the amazing opportunity to build spaces and events in the way we want them to be. We can create an environment that truly embraces and encourages everyone to find joy in this dance. So, I fully encourage everyone to take that to heart, challenge your inner voice when you feel the urge to judge based on looks, be mindful of the way you speak about our bodies and others, consider what you can do to make an inclusive space that enables people to embrace their body and move freely without shame.
Where do you see the future of belly dance going in the next decade, especially with the rise of online platforms and the increasing popularity of social media influencers in the dance world?
Honestly? Who knows! At any given time there are always positives and negatives. As far as Egypt goes, one negative right now (in my opinion at least) is that the live music more artistic shows are less and less available, in huge part due to current music trends and the higher demand for ‘western’ style nightlife by the younger Egyptian population.
However, one thing I do find really encouraging is that im touring and teaching more in the Middle East for events which are 100% organized and attended by ladies which means they are apart from the commercial world which is pushing this hyper-sexual presentation of the dance, these ladies love the dance as an art and want to learn it in a serious way and someday also become teachers and promote it in a more artistic way as well. Im also seeing some more we can say ‘indie’ and artistic projects within countries like Egypt and Lebanon in which young hip people are performing and reimagining classic music, dance, and folklore styles with their own unique twist.
Guest question: How did you feel when teaching your first class ever?
How i felt teaching my first class? I think the very first class I taught was at a local gym when I was around 16 years old. I just remember being very excited, there was a lot of people who showed up to try it and I got them in a big circle at the end to dance. It was great, Ive really enjoyed teaching from the beginning.
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